Why do I need casings? I’ve already shot my deer for the season and the local Processing guy is adding in 20% pork fat to this round I can always add more as needed. Any advice is greatly appreciated

@Barry1967 How much water are you adding? I will see if I can find a different smoke schedule for skinless but I dont remember seeing one. If we did have one I wouod suspect it would be more based around a different drying phase instead of a cooking schedule. Use a binder, add enough water and at least 20% fat should all help avoid it being too hard. It could have also been case hardening. Without a casing, the drying phase might have removed too much moisture from the sticks and created a hard outer layer.

@Barry1967 Why aren't you putting them in casings? Your fat content looks to low as well 20 will be an improvement, 30 would be better.

Do you have a suggested thermal process for snack sticks that are not getting put into a casing? Is it different than the process with casings? I hope it is because if I follow the process above they are way to dry and harder than I would like, I have been experimenting with different temps and cook times and am struggling to get the results I want. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Venison with 10 percent pork fat. Next batch with be 20 percent.

So I'm doing my snack stick overflow in the oven and the bottom of the sticks are covered in grease. Does this mean that they're getting out? Temp hasn't gotten over 140 yet

@JerkyIsMySalad As @Jonathon said. Started hanging them last couple batches with no problem though. Weird.

@Jonathon Thanks for the advice! I will plan accordingly!

@JerkyIsMySalad I would say yes you should rotate them for 2 reasons. 1 as you say you will have possibly hotter racks at the bottom and cooler on top but also you might end up with sticks with indentation lines in them so rotate them from top to bottom in the smoker but also rotate them on the rack. Now, someone just commented the other day that they did not rotate theirs and they did not get lines or anything in their sticks, I still would. I would recommend adding smoke and humidity after the initial drying stage which with sticks shouldn't take more than 20 minutes. Good luck!

@Joe-Hell , @PapaSop, @Jonathon or @Austin, I have a question that I hope could get answered before this evening as I am going to make a batch of snack sticks. I have a 30" smoke hollow smoker with 3 racks. If I were to lay the meat sticks on the the racks, should I be rotating the racks? the heat source is on the bottom and I'm afraid that they will be at different temp levels when I finish. My previous batches I have hung from the top rack but it was more work to hang them so I want to try this method. Also, at which stage do you add water for humidity? Thanks in advance

@gChart Good answer!

@Doug-Benton If you're using a cure accelerator like Encapsulated Citric Acid (ECA) then you don't need to let them cure overnight. Make sure you wait until the last 60 seconds or so of mixing to add the ECA so as not to break down the encapsulation. If you aren't using a cure accelerator, then you *need* to hold them overnight to give the cure time to work. Note, things like Sure Cure and pink salt are cures, not cure accelerators.

Thanks for clearing that up this is my first time making summer sausage. One more question can you stuff the casings let them set in refrigerator overnight then smoke them the next day? Or do they need to smoked immediately after stuffing.

@Doug-Benton What @gChart Says is true, 2 qts mixed in the meat but that's maximum, I generally say 1.5 qt if you are using a binder. It will stuff like a dream with 2 qts but your cook schedule will be longer than it needs to be as the meat cooks off some of that water

@Doug-Benton Mixed in with the meat and spices. You may not want / need a full two quarts, especially depending on the type of binder you're using (assuming you're using one). Check out the recent Meatgistics livestream for Jonathon's explanation: https://youtu.be/y9Ffmd873HY?t=1246 This link starts at the water discussion, but it's worth watching the entire thing.

In the how to make summer sausage the ingredients call for 2 quarts of water is that mixed in with the meat and spices or is it used to cool the sausage down after smoking?

@JerkyIsMySalad 80/20 as long as the 20 is pork fat will be fine, 70/30-80/20 is preference more than anything. I'd recommend that you mix it into your meat and then add the water as you are mixing for a cured product. Not sure if that was you but someone asked this same question during the live stream we just did. You can go to waltonsinc.com/live or our youtube page to watch it.

@AdamCA what’s your smoking procedure for smoking snack sticks

@Blaker25 Sure gel is a binder and yes I use it when making any cured and smoked sausage or snack sticks. I start off with my dampers wide open for the first 30-60 minutes then I close it down to about half to a little more for the remainder of the cook. The last time I did sticks they were done in about 2.5 hours.

@Jonathon @Austin, Should I mix sure gel with water before adding to meat mixture? That's what I have been doing but it doesn't specify in this recipe.

@Jonathon @Austin , Is it recommended at 70/30 ratio for venison? Will 80/20 work just fine?

@AdamCA yes I held them overnight because of the cure. So you would use the sure gel or a binder. Do either of them effect the taste. Also. What’s your dampener set at on the smoker?

@Blaker25 I would definitely recommend using Sure Gel as it is going to help make a better product, it's not mandatory but highly recommended. Did you have any humidity in there, a bowl of water or something to introduce humidity? If not I would definitely try that next time and make sure you don't overload the smoker with too much as it can impede air flow. The first time I made Summer Sausage it took forever because I didn't have any humidity and I kept opening the smoker to check the temp not thinking that every time I did that I was letting all the heat out so if you don't have a wireless thermometer I suggest getting one. You didn't mention if you held the sticks overnight after stuffing or if you went straight to the smoker but if you are not using a cure accelerator you need to hold them overnight. That won't effect the cook time but just wanted to point that out.

So I did my first batch of snack sticks today. I have a Bradley smoker and I used waltons willies snack sticks. I followed the directions on how to smoke and everything. So I put 10 pounds of snack sticks inside the smoker. This ended up taking 16 hours to reach an internal temp of 152. I didn’t use any gel binder or anything (because I’m new and not sure if I need them yet. Hoping someone could tell me.) not only did it take 16 hours. They shriveled up and don’t look appealing. I also used the smoked collagen casings 19mm. Love the size. But now the casing taste awful which I think might be from being on the smoker for so long. Please help. Want to successfully make snack sticks but really struggling. Also I feel that 16 hours was way to long. When I need to get the rest of the 25 pound batch done. Please tell me what I’m doing wrong.

@BRagland1 So here is some good information that might not be well known, the mm and fraction plates are 2 ways of saying the same thing. 3mm = 1/8 10mm = 3/8 4.5mm = 3/16 5mm = 1/4 (this is a very odd size and you wont see many) Now, depending on your grinder not all plates will fit. You need to take into account how it locks in, do your plates have 1 or 3 holes around the outside? Is one or two sides shaved off? Also, some commercial style plates are too thick to fit on retail grinders (found that out the hard way with @papasop) but some DO fit. The Weston Pro 22 will take a commercial plate and knife but the #12 and #32 will not. Crazy and I wish it was all more standardized.

I believe you recommend a 3mm plate for your final grind. The smallest one I have is 4.5mm. is that too big for summer/venison sausage.

@PapaSop I got my grinder from Cabela's several years ago. They only carry three plate sizes 4.5-7-10 mm. So I'll just keep my eyes open.

@Ode-Tom The 5 series Pitboss at Lowes is $400 and will smoke 20 16oz summer sausage hanging from one rack at the top with s-hooks. Best deal on a smoker you will find anywhere!...It is a verticle smoker with a glass front door and 3 yr waranty!!!!!! My Traeger buddies are JEALOUS!!!!

@BRagland1 Lol. Yep, got my 3mm plate from a local Fleet Farm.

@Jonathon Good, because my next question was going to be, why can't I find any #22 3mm plates on Walton's sure. Haha

@BRagland1 Yup, your 4.5 will be fine! And thanks @papasop for helping another community member out!

@BRagland1 I'm sure you'll enjoy it just fine. Good luck.

@PapaSop thank you. Wasn't sure how much difference in texture it makes.

@BRagland1 That will be fine. Have used a 4.5 many many times.

M. Saboe If you do a 50/50 with an 80/20 cut and removed all the beef fat you’d end up with a dry product. THat would get you somewhere around 10% (a little more as youll never trim all the beef fat off) so I would either add more pork fat or leave the beef fat. Pork fat is better, no doubt but beef fat is better than no fat in my opinion.

@kroc It's not 100% the same BUT [Hickory Smoke Powder](https://www.waltonsinc.com/hickory-smoke-powder) does a great job of replacing the flavor. In fact, there was a while were @austin and I were doing our Will it BBQ videos and we would smoke something and then try that same thing with hickory smoke powder and we often couldn't tell the difference. Hmmmm smoked ice cream! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ky17U-ClJI

sounds good. I will give it a try. I live in apts. so i can't use a smoker.

@kroc I'd use that hickory smoke powder. I haven't used it, yet, but it sure does smell both good and authentic. I know that liquid smoke actually is made from smoke, but it always strikes me as acrid and just "off" for smoke.

making summer sausage in the oven. Can I use powdered hickory smoke to give it the smoke flavor or liquid smoke.

bpschuebel I am fairly certain these are permeable but I will get verification on that and update this post.

Agreed I hope it end end April holding thumbs Stay safe all

I think it depends more on process. For one i would not add 20% water unless you have a vacuum tumbler. Yea you can add water if you want but just put a dab in to help mix the seasoning. Too much water can drown out some of the cure while marinating. Did you smoke it or just dehydrate it? If you want it a nicer red color marinate it for 48+hours. Even a little erthorbate will burn it redder as well. If you smoked it then put heavier smoke on it a bit longer. Hickory gives great red color. If you just dehydrate it then its harder to get it real red. My jerky cook cycle is 200 degrees the entire cook cycle, i also use humidity for an undisclosed time so 170 isnt that bad.

Doug Benton 3-6% of the products weight once they have been rehydrated if they were dehydrated. Pickled can cause problems with the cure and emulsion so I would avoid that and just use fresh. I love the taste of pickle jalapenos but it can cause issues so I avoid.

PapaSop ok thanks