Dave in AZ you are always helpful. Thank you

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My brass exposure sticks out .375" on my mixer. This was athe best measurement tool I could find. Roast away!
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Spmaher3 I’m with sjhuntingfool on this. I have learned that 12.5lbs of snack sticks is the max for my masterbuilt electric. Just don’t give up. You’ll get it figured out and find out it’s way worth doing. Just try smaller batches til you get a handle on it.

gus4416 here you go gus, I also sent a pm if you can find it… I have a hard time finding them now with this new format, myself.

https://meatgistics.waltons.com/topic/6024/spam-dave-in-az-jalapeno-version?_=1671858557120

wow so much info here, thanks for the detailed posts!

pr0wlunwoof I’m glad you were able to save the belly. My first mistake with bacon was adding to much cure. It tasted like a salt block. I didn’t know how to use the convention and thought adding more would be ok, lol

ethon bell assuming this is a non edible casing? You must ice bath either edible or non edible. And I mean ‘ice” bath. Just cold water will not do what it needs to do. With edible casings the ice bath makes it hold tight to the meat so it doesn’t pull off when taking a bite. With non edible it allows the casing to peel off the meat without taking chunks of meat with it. I know, it kinda contradicts its self but that’s how it works

Dwight Williams but the real question is, can I do that now? 😂

I ordered this same scale, but unfortunately on another site since Waltons says they would not have it available until the end of next month. Appreciate the feedback on it

shoprat53 It usually would be but not for Tex77, if Jonathan is posting a lot. 😂 😁 😀

jfyoung45
That was interesting. Thanks.

Jonathon Don’t bad mouth Brussel sprouts, I think they are great, of course I like potatoes also.

mccracs1 said in Forgot the binder:

I’m going to make summer sausage with deer meat. I picked up the ingredients while I was in Wichita. However I forgot the sure gel binder . Is there something I could subsyytitute6s t6hat’s I can buy like at least one 6.5 y6
the grocery 55tr so I don65’t have to wait on shipping?
Yep 665 5r5565r 656
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If it is actually metal, a close inspection of the knife, plate, auger and housing should give clues on where it is coming from. Look at the friction points where surfaces make contact for signs of metal loss and wear. Don’t forget to check that back end of the auger where it enters the motor drive. There should be a plastic or brass bushing or washer there.
As mdseaside mentioned, you should be oiling the plate and knife with food grade oil. This is so when you start the grind they have some lubrication till the meat makes it through the auger and can act as a lubricant for the knife and auger.

Drake good luck 👍. We’re rooting for you.

processhead said in Waltons Shipping Policy:

The seller can then just drop off at the post office

To make it even more convenient if it is a priority or express mail product they will come to you for the pickup saving the trip to the post office.

Jonathon he said 1 tsp per 5 lbs for a 20lb batch, so 4 tsp. So he was pretty close.

Austin thx. Think I’ll skip it this time I’m making a whiskey old fashioned snack stick and don’t want to mess with the whiskey, cherry and orange flavors

@dennyo-s said in Cure:

As I have learned the “Danger Zone” is “When not using cure” low temp cooking protein from an Internal Temperature of 40 to 140 degrees within 4 hours you are safe anything longer needs to be imminently fast cooked when you are getting close in time.

> And I bow to those that are moer learnnered van me:

Rite dere wit ya. LOL. Luv it!

Garry Tarpley Sounds like you let them soak for 2 beers.

glen thx glen and everyone I failed to mention the full detail: I’m using a premix pack for 10 of the 15 lb meat block. Needed the 5 lb conversion for the 5 lb differential but the sure cure and sure gel are all based on the total meat block. Thanks for weighing in!

I agree. I plan to leave frozen and cook as needed. Thanks.

davew1 you also. Good luck 👍

Great! Thank you!

dustyjasken191 The only possible downside of this that if you use way too much sodium phosphate you can develop a soapy taste in your product. I don’t think the rates you are talking about will cause any issues with either taste or health.

Brianzipperdog123 I agree with the ice 🧊 water bath. It makes all the difference in the world.

I left a message on the voicemail also in case someone was still there shipping stuff out

caitlincolorado looks like you met the so called 4 hour rule (reaching 140 F in 4 hours)
I would have no problem eating it even longer than a week, especially if vacuum packed

I appreciate that. Thanks

Austin Thanks that answers my question. I appreciate your quick response. Just wasn’t to sure on the length of time needed. Thanks David

A-A-RON Looking good.

Austin good info. Thanks

johnsbrewhouse said in ECA with jalapeño sticks?:

Bruce 0 Sounds like the fat was your problem. The elk is usually so lean and also a bit gamey you won’t notice much on freezer burn. You can tell that on the meat as well, it will look pale like th blood is gone away and starting to dry. Racid meat and fats are hard to recover from and cover up. I bought a chamber sealer to cure some of my freezer burn and rancid problem when freezing.

Thanks so much for your great input and I could not agree more I do have a great vacuum packer that in the future I will have to put two more use in order to have a better quality product

folsomwest you should be fine with 5 - 7 days

Pivodog thank you!!

you will like the tons it has a good flavor

Gravity Storm I really hope you stuffed them right after mixing and put the stuffed tubes in fridge overnight otherwise you will have a very difficult time stuffing them now.

So I decided to put them in the oven for a couple hours to make sure they were above temp. I feel better now about eating them

Jonathon
Carrot fiber worked out great. Added it to my mix of spices and water, just had to add more water to bring it back to a nice slurry. Juiciest brat I have made yet. Will keep using it.

Austin Thanks so much. Two things you said really helped me out (well everything, but two in particular) 1) it has Sodium Erythorbate and 2) the PPM in Dry Rub----your math is the same as mine to achieve 120 ppm. I broke up what I have left and try some things. One is dry rub inject, two is to do a more simple traditional cure injection (will miss your great flavor profiles but will still use bacon taste booster, and three–the wife reminded me of a recipe for chunked belly that is bbq’d on the grill which is also great and it will be ready to eat before I’m done smoking. —

On the last one my only concern is how many batches I can eat before I have I would have to schedule bypass surgery—it’s so good but man something that good can’t be good for for the ol’ ticker. Note sarcasm–hopefully far from that point but I’m apparently trying.

Finally, everyone saved the day—should have checked my stock before starting. Now off to the Waltons site to order more supplies!

Thanks again!

twilliams It should be fine from what you are describing. Like I said before, just think of it like normal ground beef or ground pork. The smokehouse BBQ is very red though as the ingredients make it a lot darker.

Jonathon
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magician176 adapt and overcome.

I agree with option 3. The longer the mix sets the stiffer it becomes and can be a real pain to stuff.

Ginny2099
If you have not ground the corned beef brisket, save it for St. Patrick’s day. If you are using lean venison, you may be able to find some fat pork or beef trimmings to mix with the venison at roughly 80 % lean venison and 20% fat.

Call around and find a grocery or meat market that still trims out their meat for a source of fatty trimmings.

Everyone’s tastes vary, but I like the flavor beef fat adds to venison snack sticks.

scottAT mix by hand for this batch, work on mixer issue at a later date

mdseaside Back pressure between the knife and plate could be the key. Was your plate retaining ring inner [censored] clean and tight on the grinder head? Ck the space between the grinder knife and the plate. If it’s not a tight fit… mush

Thank you for the reply and thankfully I don’t like my bacon charred. I will keep it pliable. Pleased I do not have to waste this pork belly.

Thanks guy! Should have clarified a couple things in my question but it has nothing to do with twang, just making sure the meat is safe for consumption after I’m done smoking. Normally I would either leave it in the fridge overnight (i.e 12 hours or more) or would just go with ECA and go immediately into smoker right after stuffing. Without going into all the details I really don’t have that option this weekend so my choice is either a) add the ECA with the cure and start smoking within 6-10 hours of when the cure and ECA are added to the pork or b) leave the ECA out. I’m planning on smoking about 100 pounds of sticks in the smoker so I’m thinking it will probably take me 3-4 hours just to get everything mixed and stuffed (i.e. thus the reason for the 6-10 hour range). Based on these additional details, would you recommend ECA or not?

JoeB No Libation gives you no excuse… lessons learned 😎

Thanks for the quick responses! Much appreciated.

If you mix in the garlic, then pack it in a pan and let it sit overnight in the refrigerator prior to stuffing, you may find you get better distribution of the flavors.

Jonathon thank you. .16 and 2.4 oz of water for 1 lb ground turkey for making turkey bacon got. I appreciate you giving me the answer

I had the same problem for years until last week I switched to a vertical offset converted to propane. With the burner off to the side instead of under the sausage I no longer get over done bottoms and under done tops. I also can do 24 inch casings now instead of having to settle for 12 inch cases to keep the bottoms from overcooking. Dyna glo signature vertical offset. Paid $150 for mine brand new and robbed a burner from my turkey fryer.

LuckyDs no problem that’s what this community is all about helping one another and learning from each other…what works what doesn’t…this place is full of excellent info

bpschuebel
Thanks so much.I was thinking along those lines myself but being the first attempt wasn’t sure if myself. Ive made summer sausage several times and use the citric but didn’t think the sausage needed it.
Thanks again!

mcherbies How did the bologna turn out? I would love to add some sugar as well… Not sure how much.

Ok, cool I found it. I was using the wrong search.
Didn’t realize there are 2. Found exactly what I needed. My math was correct, it just didn’t seem like it. Thanks a bunch.

mdseaside
Nice looking sausage’s there. As Jonathon said that’s interesting about losing some smoke flavor in the Sous Vide.

Turned out quite good! Too much clove flavor though☹️ For my tastes.

Rafter3 There are only 1 or 2 seasonings that we sell that actually have the cure mixed in, the vast vast majority of them have the cure in a separate package that will be included but is in its own small bag. The exceptions to that rule is some of the fast pack stuff and honestly that is almost exclusively bought by commercial processors.

For summer sausage the best thing to do would be to watch all of https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/category/40/cured-sausage if you have time. If you don’t then watch/read:
https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/765/cured-sausage-104-casings-for-summer-sausage
https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/762/cured-sausage-107-basics-for-making-summer-sausage
https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/1099/cured-sausage-205-advanced-thermal-processing
https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/1108/cured-sausage-206-advanced-cured-sausage-processing

Pay special attention to the 205 thermal processing. Pulling it at 130° and finishing in 177° water is going to cut hours off of your processing. It can be a little intimidating to try on your 1st batch though. If you want to get comfortable with the process first then just watch the 104 and 107.

Quick tips would be, use sure gel meat binder, use Encapsualted Citric Acid as a cure accelerator and tang adder (if you don’t like tang then stuff before holding overnight) and finally be patient with your smoke schedule. It is easy to get frustrated during the stall and just up the temp on the smoker but that can cause issues.

Hmm, so you’re saying using cure in ground jerky may not be enough for safety, that a high salt content is needed as well? I’m not shooting for "shelf stable at room temp for six months, " as I keep jerky in the fridge or frozen. I’ll check out those videos for sure. I made a recent batch of teriyaki jerky that was real good, mostly I think because I extruded it a little thicker and didn’t cook it bone hard.

smokinjerky1991 Start here https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/683/summer-sausage-nightmare/8?_=1610834298671 that is a water shed moment in meatgistics history if you ask me! Also we talk about fatting out a good amount in https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/category/40/cured-sausage Basically to give you the cliffs notes on it fat renders out of meat if it is not mixed enough and or a binder wasn’t used. So, add sure gel meat binder and mix the meat until it is tacky and sticky.

thanks, Aaron. The problem/question I have about the calls for pickling brine aren’t addressed in your spreadsheet. For most recipes the salt, sugar, and spices are scalable (twice the volume you double the ingredients) but the nitrite concentrations are not scalable in this way. Nitrite concentration depends on how much meat you are going to put into a volume of brine and those values also depend on how long the meat will need to cure in the brine. Injections certainly shorten the time needed for curing as well as the use of accelerants. I’m hoping to figure out how these calculations are made so I can adapt the pickling recipe to use other pre-mixed cures that contain different nitrite concentrations for curing bacon and hocks.

BobK take a look at my spread sheet I attached to the bragging board “Fresh Smoked Ham”. It wasn’t created for bacon cure but uses the brown sugar cure and is scalable. Hope it helps!

Jonathon no worries 🙂

Thanks to everyone who helped answer Bubbas question

Jonathon 75% venison 25% pork fat with honey bbq seasoning, the pink cure, sure gel, and smoked meat stabilizer, I ended up putting them in the oven at 125 for an hour 150 for an hour and then put them on my smoker at 180 the lowest it would go till they hit 160

oldmeatcutter If you are not adding a binder I would add no more than 32 oz, if you are adding sure gel you can add up to 48 oz. You can actually go above that but the more water you add the more you will have to cook out, so it could increase your smoke time and could change the texture of your product.

lesgary absolutely you can but carrot fiber is more aimed at a fresh product and since you are using sodium erythorbate I assume you’re making a cured product? You’ll be fine with the carrot fiber but in the future use sure gel for a cured binder

genex Yeah, it won’t be quite as red as it would be if you had added the erythorbate but holding for 12-24 hours in a 50% strength solution and you are all good!

oldmeatcutter
Here is the topic on making snack sticks: https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/182/how-to-make-homemade-snack-sticks

You should use 1 quart (32 oz) of water for a 25 lb batch.

Thanks! They will be frozen.

Jehar when I make my pizza pepperoni I use 12# venison, 13# pork butt and stuff them in 32mm collagen cases. I do smoke mine and they turn out great.

carlcat Yeah, only pump the Cold Phosphate and make sure it is the very first thing that is dissolved into the mix. It takes a lot of mixing to properly dissolve that so if there is anything else already suspended in the water you are going to have a heck of a time. When you are calculating your cover 50% strength brine leave out the phosphate.

Thanks. I was just wondering if it would work for a quick fix.

Joe Hell Thanks for the information. David

I start at 160 for 2hr as my smoker only goes as low as 160.
Then to 175 for an hour. I finish at 200 until i get an internal temp of 160
after that i put them in an ice bath to cool them of and set the casing. My snack sticks come out perfect ever time this way.

bill60 What cure are you talking about? Sure cure is the cure you should be using and the https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/700/cure-conversion-chart/2 lists it as .04 oz for 1 lb and .2 oz for 5 lb. If it is a seasoning we have listed incorrectly please let me know which one but the best way to figure it for yourself is to take the weight of the bag of seasoning and divide it by the batch size. So if the bag says use 1 lb of seasoning to 25 lb of meat 1/25= lb of seasoning per lb of meat. Then multiply that by 16 for oz and then if you need to be more accurate by 28.3 for grams of seasoning per lb of meat.

kkyle597 Yeah, you should be fine, sorry you just missed me last night. 48 hours is as far as you want to go though.

Glass mountain farms I checked through our scrap parts and obsolete parts as well and don’t have a washer for a Weston #32, sorry! Hopefully, you have luck with Weston. Let me know the diameter of the auger that the thrust washer goes around and we can see if it matches the Torrey. I still don’t think it will work as it is too thick but it might be worth looking at as that could be sanded or ground down

Jonathon it was just on styrofoam trays they had wrapped. The store I was at is generally high on meat, and I only buy meat there if it is a great sale, say like .99 cent pork shoulders.

Les Strahm Yes, that is correct. So I am going to be doing a video on this eventually to clear some stuff up with injection of cures. The amount of water isn’t the important thing, it is the amount of cure. We pump hams higher than Bacon so it stays moist and don’t want a lot of water in bacon but it is the amount fo cure that is important.

Hope this helped, hams are always an issue!

Thank you all for the comments and really impressed Jonathon took the time to respond. I really do appreciate the help. I did use a pre-packaged seasoning just a flavor that Walton’s doesn’t offer. After the smoke it turned out with good flavor still but a bit soft. Overall a great learning lesson for me as the encapsulated citric acid was new to me and I didn’t even know it was in the kit. One more reason to buy kits from Waltons to get a quality product. Thanks Everyone!

jbkitzy1 First, I would recommend using Sure Gel, it is a better binder for cured meat than Carrot Fiber which is really better used in fresh sausage. It can be used in cured sausage but sure gel is the better option. Second, 70% venison and 30% pork is going to leave you too lean, you need more fat than that. Go 50/50 with venison and nice fatty untrimmed pork butts, even that will be on the low end of what you want but it will work. You were most likely somewhere in the 10-15% fat range when you want to be in the 20-30% range. The fact that they dried up on you and the meat was crumbly are indicators that it was too lean. Also, remember to mix until you have really good protein extraction, the crumbly texture could have something to do with that, or if you added ECA and mixed too long that could have done it as well. The encapsulated Ctiric acid needs to be added during the last 60 seconds of mixing, this is because we don’t want to rputure the coating on the citric acid or the acid will interact with the meat too soon in the process.

If you do want to try making a lower fat summer sausage you can take some of the principles from this video and apply them, notably using cold phosphate to increase the water holding capacity of the meat. Just know that adding that will cancel out any citric acid you are adding or any other pH dropping ingredients.
https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/235/how-to-make-juicer-meat-products?_=1603748529130

I had a similar recipe and cut the kosher salt back to 2/3 cup and brown sugar up to 1 1/3 cup. I also add 1TBS course ground pepper, 1 TBS onion powder and 1 TBS garlic powder. I did this because the pink curing salt made the mix too salty for my taste. My next venture will be to add the maple syrup to the mix and see how that works out.

I have two oven thermometers arriving tomorrow and will do a thorough check on the grill to determine how the temp is and where are the hotspots. The grill is only a couple months old but I realize the possibilities of temp variations.

Hopefully, those thermostats will be helpful. I also want to test my oven temps in the kitchen to see where that is at.

Thanks for the input.

calldoctoday Maybe I am blind but I am not seeing detter22 asking for Rabbit sausage spices? Maybe it was on another post? I know this is so over used but people say rabbit does taste slightly of chicken just a little more intense and earthy (whatever that means) so I would say really anything is going to work well with it for Sausage. Hatch Green Chili springs instantly to mind as does Supreme Pizza and Apple Brat but now I am just naming my favorite bratwurst seasonings!

I think I am back up and running. The different apps I use all have a their own security and cookies settings. My old phone is lying in pieces on a hwy somewhere and I am still working on getting this one back to where the previous was.

Just use this set the PPM to 20 and enter in grams and you press calculate cure and it will give you the amount of salt need that is all you need to add only salt need ignore the rest.

http://diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html

Jonathon We used the meat, seasoning, sure cure, and water, then stuffed and put in fridge over night. I will take a look at the extractor link. Thanks for your time.

ive msde lots and lots of snack sticks and never add anything like binders etc. make sure all mixing etc. is done well and stick to a good stepped heat/smoke schedule. i never have any issues.

twilliams Doh… I know the feeling. I have the same issue when I put my vehicles back together. Always left overs part.

lkrfletcher

BTW, thank you for Your Service.

mikemikemike That’s the first I’ve heard of anyone talking about packaging up sausage before cooling it in an ice bath or shower.

I’ve not had any issue with losing too much smoke flavor or aroma in an ice bath or even a longer sous vide. Obviously, some washes off. I can smell it in the sous vide water, although I don’t smell anything in an ice bath. In either case (or both cases combined), I’ve been quite happy with the smoke level in my final product.

Jonathon they were wonderful to get on the horn. My horns are plastic. Not sure if they would struggle going stainless steel but i doubt it. As long as you soak, flush and rinse in water as recommended. I just like them being pre cut to lenght vs. Restling with 300 ft or what ever the standard casing length they come in.