General

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  We Need Feedback On Groups (Plus, you need to join Team Orange!)
  • Austin  

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  Thank you
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  Drink of Choice
  • Tex_77  

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  Parksider The bourbon world is so weird lately. In Ohio, I can get all the Weller Reserve ($25) and Weller Antique 107($49) I want. People in other states are paying up to $200 a bottle for the same stuff. It’s a great pour. But, won’t spend that much on it because there’s enough of others to taste. I won a Weller 12 and Weller CYPD in local auctions. But, have many other types of bourbon to choose from to keep the taste buds very happy. When I won the two Wellers, was offered $250 for each and turned them down because I like to share “rare” one’s (aka: special) with other bourbon buds/lifetime friends in and out of the area. That means more than the dollars. Just have some fun my foody buds.
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  Jerky mix for snack sticks
  • bckarl  

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  bckarl there is a thread out there and I will link it if can locate it. I am sure someone has a better recall then me and will beat me to it. You will need to use more seasoning to make the snack sticks if I remember correctly. Let me do a search.
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  pork
  • craigrice  

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  craigrice Sorry, I can’t say I have.
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  Another Wildfire
  • lkrfletcher  

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  lkrfletcher Randyman I would if I could send you some precip from my area. Predicting 2-4 heavy wet snow tonight and we have been getting rain or snow at least a couple of time a week since the beginning of Oct. Temp’s are all over the place, mid 20’s to low 40’s. Stay safe out there.
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  Casings and Halal
  • Chef  

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  Jonathon Always worth checking. Thanks. Is there anything in the 32 - 35 mm range?
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  Patty Maker
  • Chef  

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  Chef Ditto & that applies to most everything.
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  Grills
  • Tex_77  

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  Jonathon you are correct on both accounts.
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  Jimmy Deans sausage rolls
  • Ben W  

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  Jonathon I’m a big fan of the poly tubing! It’s not inexpensive but a roll will last the average home producer for years!
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  Sale today
  • Jonathon  

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  PapaSop Not yet, I already submitted the PO for new shirts (just restock) but we are trying to figure something else out with hats. These ones will certainly be in stock, we will get at least 37 m-l and 36 l-xl as they are fitted. I wanted to make a “Meatgistics” hat but I ran out of time this year. However, Dry Cured 101-102&1-103 have all been shot and are being edited now!
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  Sausage stuffer
  • detter22  

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  Jonathon thanks for the heads up I’m glad you said something when I make the philly chicken brats I learn I need to increase my seasonings for 22 pounds of meat and 30 lbs of seasoning. Chickens a crazy bird!
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  Gardening, canning, pickling and everything related
  • Tex_77  

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  calldoctoday the butcher shop I use has them in the freezer section. I have seen them in Walmart, Hispanic and oriental groceries. Pretty inexpensive product, I don’t think that they will be going the way of brisket. LOL
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  just going to go for it
  • no_eyes_processor  

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  You will love it. It is a good one for sure! - I got no regrets
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  Sous Vide - Infusing Margaritas for the Weekend
  • lkrfletcher  

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  Jonathon These are easy - Fruit Margarita is: 3/4 shot of simple syrup 3/4 shot of Grand Marneir 1 shot of Don Julio white tequila. 10 strawberries or blueberries, or blackberries, or raspberries Bag it, seal it, sous vide it for 2.5 hours at 135 take it out - squish fruit, chill for a day, strain into a glass. DO NOT DEVIATE - Just try a basic mix like this. Then maybe try citrus infusion. See how squishing it and chilling it really brings out the color into the infusion. Its all flavor my friend. My wife says the blueberry is excellent! Wish I could drink em!
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  smoking without sight
  • no_eyes_processor  

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  no_eyes_processor Hey there, Can’t say I have much knowledge with this issue, but did a search on the internet and there are braille outputs that take an input to an led display and converts that to braille
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  Walton's Meat Fact Friday - Dry Aged Steaks
  • Tex_77  

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  detter22 We have an eller dry aging cabinet, so the entire cabinet is temp and humidity-controlled. We just pulled the last bit and the increase in product loss pre trimming from 21 to 50 something days was astounding! We are going to cook a few of them up and see if the loss is worth it or not. My guess is that it will NOT be
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  research on pk100 smoker
  pk100 • • no_eyes_processor  

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  no_eyes_processor I’ve checked this out before and even contacted the manufacturer to see if there is a way to get it to hard reset but there is not, when you turn it off and on the PK will revert to its most recent temperature setting. Wooden dowels are the easiest way to hang in this smokehouse, just make sure it is really well sanded wood with no splinters!
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  Prime Day
  • Tex_77  

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  Jonathon Sounds good, I’ll be on the lookout.
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  This topic is deleted!
  • A Former User  

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  Chambered Pouches
  • Chef  

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  If you are freezing the sealed product, you likely won’t see a difference in your lifetime (or mine, or my kids’).
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  Bologna info
  • wvhunter1965  

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  Jonathon, Good morning all, The roll of bologna came out amazing and I feel it is much better than the Hot Dog and bologna seasoning (so does my wife). We will certainly be using this from now on. It was a busy weekend as we did 25lb breakfast sausage, 10 lb italian sausage, 10lb of brats, 20 lb of deer bologna and the 6lb roll of bologna. All of it will be enjoyed and will certainly be made with Waltons supplies. (Everything but the meat!)
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  Look what the wife made for me today
  • lkrfletcher  

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  What wife was that?
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  sawdust for pk100
  • no_eyes_processor  

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  twilliams Jonathon Thanks! I hadn’t seen those. That makes life a good deal easier.
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  First run in the PK100
  • lkrfletcher  

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  twilliams Sad thing but money and tax revenue does influence things. I know I keep a very sterile environment when I make sausage. I’m presently looking for a small walk-in refrigerator that I can dedicate to sausage making. That would help control temperature, not to mention I like cold. Hate Texas temperatures. As I get more into sausage making, I see that planning for larger production is a must.
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  This topic is deleted!
  • lkrfletcher  

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  Habanero high temp cheese question
  • lkrfletcher  

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  TexLaw - Thanks, Im gonna have to wait then. Too hot!
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  pk100 comparison to masterbuilt with smoke generator
  • no_eyes_processor  

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  You’ll have no trouble at all. I get plenty of smoke flavor from my PK 100. One bowl full makes for some pretty heavy smoke. You might need to stir or tamp down the contents of the bow after a couple hours, but that’s really not a problem at all. Do use sawdust. Don’t use chips or pellets. I know everyone says to wet the sawdust, but I haven’t seen that make any difference at all, so I don’t bother with it anymore.
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  "Carnivor" Diet
  • Jonathon  

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  Jonathon That will happen - Just begin today with a clean slate. I guess no more almonds. LOL
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  Lost a freezer last night
  • lkrfletcher  

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  @Chef-your probably right. I guess it is the chance we take in this hobby / job.
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  Apple or Mesquite
  • lkrfletcher  

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  twilliams Yreah unfortunately unless you are buying the 2 lb bags of sawdust/pellets there is an upcharge so while the standard shipping ($10.99 or whatever it is) the upcharge will still be there, which can be pretty expensive. It’s been a busy year at Walton’s filled with both good and bad things, we’ve faced a lot of challenges but are handling them (as best we can) and trying to come out stronger!
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  Ingredients
  • Grandpa1  

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  They both are binders. You can use either, depending on allergy issues, availability, cost, whimsy, etc. I used non-fat dry milk as a binder for my first few batches of sausage. It does work fine, but I prefer Sure Gel for my cured sausages.
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  Hatch Chili Sausage
  • Chef  

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  Joe1 That looks like a very sound recipe. Thanks
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  beef barley soup
  • Chef  

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  Yes ox tails are very good too I’ve used them several times to mix the shakes and the ox tails together awesome flavor
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  Buffalo Chopper
  8142 • • Tex_77  

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  Tex_77 You’re close enough to me, buy it for me! I’ll come get it.
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  New Livestream
  • Jonathon  

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  Jonathon Have to agree with Tex_77
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  Slicers
  • PapaSop  

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  As Jason’s moves further from their birthplace, and marketing to a different clientele, many things are shifting. I know one manager who just had to quit given the direction they were going. Remember when McDonalds actually cooked their meat on a grill in the restaurant. Food industry is changing. I’m just grateful that there are a few customers that like non processed food without all the chemicals.
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  PK 100
  • Parksider  

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  You’re doing the right thing. Let it run free in the fields, instead of being cooped up in the corner!
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  Pro-cut grinder trouble
  • Alaskaljd  

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  Alaskaljd We can ship to you, just not always cost effective. Let us know if you need any help, other than that, our capable CS team should be able to assist!
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  IS THIS A PK100?
  • lkrfletcher  

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  lkrfletcher That’s awesome, seems like it was a simple fix and one others could use in the future, I might try to do the same on our PK100 and see if it gets more accurate? Can’t wait to try the almonds, we’ll see at the livestream!
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  Small video
  • lkrfletcher  

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  PapaSop No, they aren’t sadly. We had a miscommunication with the vendor and they didn’t include them. Hopefully on the next batch of them!
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  Garden Chili
  • wvhunter1965  

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  Jonathon, Posted it this evening! Check it out!
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  Digital Scale
  • scott farm  

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  lkrfletcher Lucky for you they are on sale this month https://www.waltonsinc.com/sales
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  Color War
  • Tex_77  

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  Chef Well, My Goodness!
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  Ice Cream
  • Tex_77  

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  Joe Hell said in Ice Cream: TexLaw I made a test batch the other day using Monk Fruit Sweetener instead of sugar and it turned out great. The drawback is that it is pretty expensive stuff. I made an “Irish Coffee” ice cream. Standard Coffee Ice Cream recipe with a touch of whiskey! Alcohol is also said to aid in a creamy texture. I’ve finally made it, ate half of it instantly. Thank you for that post. Chimney Sweep indeed.
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  What casing do I use
  • BarbecueJim  

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  BarbecueJim I’d also recommend you purchase a picker. It will help let the air gaps out of the casing. Poke it on the stuffing tube or down the casing but NOT right where it’s coming off the tube it will rip the casing.
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  Worst day ever in meat processing
  • twilliams  

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  twilliams lt’s tough but a good call. Just not worth it…We lost an entire stand up freeze because someone unplugged it to plug in their stupid phone and didn’t plug it back in…
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  Can you freeze snack stick mix
  • scott kilpeck  

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  Hi Jonathan thank you for your response. I will be ordering more casings to stuff the rest. The season is awesome.
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  Code
  • Mschmidt  

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  Jonathon, Thank you so very much!
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  Live Life as if it was 9/12
  • Chef  

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  Jonathon there are a lot of tough calls made with what you hope is the best info available. Some of it is a gut call. Unlike making the decision to attend a party rather than study for the test coming up. Bad decision, bad results, but you get the opportunity for a do over. It just doesn’t work that way in most of real world circumstances. I could philosophize poetic here, but I am sure that you understand.
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  What's Your favorite Shaker for Chicken
  • lkrfletcher  

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  Butter Garlic Rub, Bloody Mary and Mexicali are my 3 favorites from excalibur for chicken. I also really like JPs Sweet Heat, Kosmos Buffalo Wing Dust and EAT BBQ zero to hero
• 

  Netflix: Chef's Table BBQ
  • Tex_77  

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  I watched a couple episodes of that the other night, pretty good show. Definitely not getting any recipes but it is nice to see how other people cook.
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  type of casings
  • wooziewaz  

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  BobbyMac has made this a few times, hopefully he sees this and can answer! If not, you can get some more information on the Taylor Ham in the below post. https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/2063/homemade-pork-roll-taylor-ham/10?_=1599740142321
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  Dehydration
  • Chef  

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  Jonathon I run onions in the dehydrator. I’m not sure of the exact time but it could be as much as 30 hours or more. I’d also suggest doing this outdoors! lol
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  Bacon Snack Sticks
  • Jonathon  

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  For anyone who watched our livestream (and if you didn’t you can go back and watch it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBZeyp_frTc) we all decided we were going to make special snack sticks to send out to the “winners” of the giveaway (winners get some food product I have made plus a seasoning of their choice) but I didn’t want to make another batch of Willies or some other normal snack stick. We made Sweet Maple Bacon Sticks with cooked bacon ground in and on top of that we used Bacon Taste Booster in them. Booster is designed to impart old-world Bacon taste with modern curing techniques and previously we did not recommend it be used other than when injected and tumbling bacon. Then we used it while making imitation bacon once and have never looked back so the thought was what about using it in a snack stick? Results have been very positive with some people saying it’s the best stick they have had. Personally I liked it, and would certainly add it again to a bacon snack stick but I also thought they were a tad salty. We will get a video out on this and call it something like “Ultimate Bacon Snack Stick” or something that makes people feel like they are going to die if they don’t watch the video…you know, normal stuff for us! Sorry guys, I have been doing computer work all day and the crazy just sort of builds up if I don’t let it out!
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  Bratwurst flavors
  • OutdoorCharlie  

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  OutdoorCharlie German is one of the few that they formulated for either way, they include the cure in a separate package but if you are making fresh just don’t add the cure. Good luck!
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  Recent order
  • twilliams  

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  Chef Sure can, you just created it!
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  Manual Meat Grinder
  • Chef  

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  craigrice I actually like the idea
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  New Tagging Feature #jonisawesome
  • Jonathon  

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  So, we have created a “tagging” system for the Meatgistics message board to allow for some easier searching. You can add hashtags to your posts to make them easier to find in the future. For example, if someone makes a post in the User Recipe section for smoke salmon they can tag it with #fish and then people can go to the search feature, change the category to Tags and then any tags that match what you searched will appear. You can then click on that tag and it will list out all posts that have that tag. We are interested to see how you guys utilize this, let the fun begin!
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  What to buy or stock up on just in case.
  • Chef  

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  Booze and bullets are important but here is one that might be interesting. Sure Cure has a ton of uses and if things get incredibly bad (think Mad Max) that stuff will be worth way more than gold!
• 

  Getting to the bottom of large posts
  • Jonathon  

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  craigrice The next one is going to be October 1st, that might change by a day or two but not much.
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  Looking for recipes and time charts on vacuum meat tumbling.
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  I probably would too
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  Livestream today
  • Jonathon  

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  lkrfletcher Both were great post. Frankly, I’ll be trying to make both. As I said many times, collectively the skills and talents in the Meatgistics is extraordinary. I think both will be tried my many. Would you please post the recipes in the User Recipe category.That would make all three post easily accessible to all. Us old folks can’t remember where we put our glasses much less what categories we have read things.
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  canning
  • craigrice  

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  Tex_77 I feel stupid, always a good choice.
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  Help with Sausage stuffer.
  • Skip_Anderson  

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  Chinese for hand held stuffer
• 

  OT: Canvas Tents
  • Tex_77  

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  Tex_77 we promise to not tell your wife you said that…LOL
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  Check this out
  • lkrfletcher  

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  Very nice!
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  SOUS VIDE VODKA
  • lkrfletcher  

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  lkrfletcher Right on! Alcohol infusions might just be the best use I’ve seen for a Sous Vide date!
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  Philly cheese steak brats feedback requested
  • lkrfletcher  

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  PapaSop better lay low or the cheese heads will be coming to pull your Dairyland card. LOL I am a former cheese head and still make pilgrimages to the mom and pop cheese makers and some of the small makers. It is difficult to find some of the quality stuff elsewhere. My sister from AK will bring an extra suitcase just to bring cheese back.
• O

  smoker temps too high
  • opah73  

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  Jonathon There are times that you come across a a really nice guy.
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  No Humor Catagory
  • Chef  

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  This is excellent way to start my day. We are going to be asking everyone what additional categories they would like to see on Meatgistics by the way so there is a place for this type of content and people can feel free to share non meat/food-related stuff.
• 

  Polish Sausages book by Stanley Marianski
  • Chef  

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  Chef I found the description of the type of brat they serve. Bavarian Bratwurst Coarsely ground pork and beef sausage in a natural casing.
• O

  sous vide questions
  • opah73  

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  TexLaw said in sous vide questions: You ought to be just fine. I have an Inkbird wand that I’ve used many times with the smaller (“economy”) meat lug that Walton’s carries (LOOK HERE. It’s not quite two feet, corner to corner, so your sticks will just fit (depending on how many you want to fit in there). One thing about snack sticks, though, is that they typically are semi-dried. While some moisture will come out, you aren’t going to get any real “drying” effect from sous vide cooking. If you’re fine with that, rock on. If not, you might want to leave your sticks in the smoker for longer, maybe to 150F or so. I brought my most recent batch of Summer sausage to 150F (maybe 152F) before moving it to sous vide, and I was very happy with it. I thought of this as well. I haven’t tried doing snack sticks in smoker+sous vide yet, but one thought i had was bagging them with paper towels to draw moisture, but i am not sure if it would draw any extra moisture then what would just end up in the bag anyway. Maybe silica packs. Either way, i think using sous vide after the initial cold smoke to bring it to 165F then remover and finish in a dehydrator at a low setting to reach desired finish weight might be a good way to prevent too much fat out. My problem has always been the casings ending up too tough and chewy to eat. I am not sure if it was cheap casings, or something went wrong during the cook/cooling process. I wonder how well natural casings would work for snack sticks. Something like natural casings for breakfast sausage links.
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  Sourkraut Bratwurst
  • Elias  

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  10-45 out of Leola s.d. and kens out of Aberdeen s.d.
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  Kids, Schools, Staff, & Parents
  • Chef  

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  Lifting these and others in the education system up in prayer this morning.
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  Pepper Jelly
  • Chef  

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  This look fairly simple, maybe substitute with hatch chilis? https://www.chilipeppermadness.com/chili-pepper-recipes/jellies/jalapeno-jelly/
• 

  High Temp Cheese
  • Chef  

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  Jonathon Never heard of them. Interesting products, can’t find any information about their charity, % donated, 504 status…
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  Mango dip
  • tarp  

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  Sorry here it is: 6 cups mangoes 1 red onion finely diced 1 cup seeded diced red bell pepper ( 2or 3 red jalapeños I added 1 red tabasco and 1 small Hatch pepper cause we like a kick to it, all out of the garden) 1/2 tsp red pepper flakes 2 cloves garlic 2 tsp finely chop ginger 1 cup brown sugar 1 1/4 cup 5% vinegar 1/2 cup water chop everything fine. bring all ingredients to boil reduce simmer 5 minutes make sure sugar is dissolved Have your 1/2 pint jars ready and your lids and water bath use slotted spoon to fill jars as usual leave that 1/2" head space Process for 10 minutes here at sea level.I’m at 135’above sea level. 15 minutes for pints if you want to double recipe. yummm
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  Excalibur Seasonings
  • Chef  

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  Jonathon Austin will grow up. Let high blood pressure hit (along with all the joys of getting old). On a serious note, salt is more of an acquired taste. Part of the process food industry is to hook people on all the salt and other additives. The body will begin to crave those things.
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  Hatch pepper time (Canning Freezing)
  • tarp  

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  FireHorse my experience, it depends on how they were grown. One year you can use a a TBS or two in a recipe the next you can be down to a tsp or two. I have been told the heat will vary on how the peppers were stressed during growing. I don’t know the scoville rating, but I would compare it to a jalapeno.
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  Any discount codes out there?
  • lamurscrappy  

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  Yea i got it. Thanks!
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  Carrot Fiber and Water Ratio
  • jramey  

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  jramey Great question! Yes, more water can be added when using carrot fiber, it actually holds up to 26 times its weight in water BUT using it at that ratio will destroy your product. When I user carrot fiber I feel adding up to 2 qts of water per 25 lb of meat is okay. Personally I usually stop at 1.5 quarts but up to 2 seems to be fine, beyond that we’ve seen a lot of texture issues in the product. Also, I like carrot fiber far better in fresh product, in cured products I prefer sure gel or even in some situation super bind. We are going to do some stuff in meatgistics University with binders and when to use what one coming soon(ish)
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  Walton's coupon code
  • bubba  

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  Jonathon I’m also signed up for the newsletter and have not received an email with a coupon code
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  Equipment Maintenance
  • Chef  

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  LOL sometimes the censor thing makes no sense but we are a family-friendly site, or try to be. I’m not sure on that type of stuffer but I am assuming it works similarly to ours and with ours I would reapply some lubricant once or twice a year depending on how often you use it. Food Grade Grease is the best but you need the grease gun for that so the Lubrifilm will work.
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  Snack sticks.
  • PapaSop  

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  Jonathon I would think that a company like Excalibur would have very tight Scoville unit requirement to keep their recipes uniform. I have very specific ranges for any peppers from my spice supplier so my food always comes out the same. If they don’t, then I would think that at least they should test and adjust formulas based on ingredients.
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  Smoking ham
  • scott kilpeck  

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  Thank you for your help jonathon. I did watch both videos they where a big help. And the ham came out great.
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  National Wild Turkey Federation "Call for All" Auction
  • Jonathon  

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  In case anyone wants to support a good cause by trying to bid on some amazingly cool items/experiences or just wants to look at what’s available and dream check out this https://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com/NWTF-Live-Summer-Grand-National-Call-for-All-Auction_as66395 auction going on right now from NWTF. They were nice enough to come on the podcast last week and I have to say, it was a great episode and a great time. We talked about turkey, why it’s important to get young kids out hunting and we got a few AWESOME bear stories from Alaska! This episode will be live on Monday August 10th. We feel like we’ve started to hit a stride and it turns out its more interesting with less Austin ! No, just kidding but he was not on this most episode, don’t worry, he will be back! https://www.nwtf.org/
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  Give Aways
  • Little Baby Teddy  

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  IndianaJohn Yeah patrick (video editor: many other functions) noticed this yesterday and fixed it!
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  Roast Beef
  • msalmon  

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  Jonathon Here is the discussion talked about in the podcast today.
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  Use the Map Feature!
  • Jonathon  

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  I never really paid attention to that up there, just like I never really paid attention to putting my location in my profile. Cool!
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  Polish Sausage Seasoning
  • zbigjeff  

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  Made 18 lbs using the Walton’s Polish seasoning w/o msg and appropriate amount of the 4 additional spices from YooperDog. This time we smoked at 225 for 3 hours, then cold bath. Wonderful outcome.
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  Lone tick disease
  • BryanM  

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  Jonathon Awesome. Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated
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  Best smoker. (Electrical)
  • GalvanAP  

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  Jonathon mikedef5 @PK100 My .02¢. Are the sticks fatting out? How close are the sticks hanging together? In my vertical smokers I move my hanging sticks around to lessen the effects of hot spots in the box and I am thinking about adding a fan or two to move the air a bit. My horizontal smoker I do the same with the trays and rotate. It is a bit more putty and tempemental being stick fed and there is a noticable hot spot and no place for a worthwhile tray to add moisture, but it works well with larger cuts of meat and you have a reason to sit around and drink to watch it cook. No experience with the PK100, maybe later this fall when passing through and there is room in the truck.
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  This topic is deleted!
  • GalvanAP  

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  Types of pork
  • Chef  

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  That is one wild looking pig!
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  Saving/Marking important posts for later
  • cdub2007  

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  cdub2007 Yes, if you bookmark it they should be saved for you. To access that you can go to your profile and there will be a section showing you the things you have bookmarked.
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  pepper stick seasoning
  • cykobowtech  

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  cykobowtech Ah okay, the pepper stick is good, not a ton going on but a good basic snack stick. I’ve never tried the hunters blend but it looks pretty close but it might not have the same level of kick. If you are looking to add heat, I’d recommend you add Ghost pepper Cheese or 60K red pepper Hunters blend: Salt, pepper, garlic powder, hickory powder with maltodextrin, spice extractives, spices (includes cayenne, chipotle, jalapeno and habanero peppers and black pepper), sugar, natural flavors and natural smoke flavor. Not more than 2% soybean oil and silicon dioxide to prevent caking. Contains wheat. Pepper Stick: Salt, Corn Syrup Solids, Dextrose, Ground Mustard, Spices (Including Pepper), Dehydrated Garlic, Sodium Erythorbate (0.64%).
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  Sausage strips
  • Tex_77  

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  Tex_77 sort of looks like Spam. My guess would be to make it like venison bacon. Grind up the meat block, add some seasonings and a binder, let it set in a pan in the fridge before sending it to the smoker. It does look like some venison bacon I have made in the past.
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  New segment
  • Jonathon  

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  Jonathon I have had some IPA’S that will puch you in the face before your first sip, not an everyday drink but I do enjoy them. You can make the transition to the dark side by starting the habit of having at least one IPA a day and slowly increasing to the hoppier styles. Soon you will then learn to appreciate those complexities. Don’t hate, appreciate. LOL
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  #12 Meat Slicer
  • drbrown35801  

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  drbrown35801 I think you mean the Weston 2500 (https://www.waltonsinc.com/weston-pro-2500-chamber-vacuum-sealer) the main difference will be power of the pump and quality of build. The HBC, and vp215 are designed more with a small commercial application in mind. Nothing against the 2500, it’s a good machine for what it does but it does have limitations that the others wont. The advantage is you could buy 1.5 of those vs the cheapest of the other kinds so if it does need replacing its not the biggest issue in the world. But in general the 3 HBC ones we carry and vp215 are going to last longer, you just pay a lot more for them!
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  Snack sticks lacking seasoning taste
  snack stick seasonings • • Herb Manifold  

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  Thank you all for the excellent information. I will give less water a try and some sure gel on my next batch with a little increase in seasoning and see how it turns out. You all were very helpful!!!